Warrior Talent Ratings

Rather than contributing a talent "build", I thought I would have us break down and evaluate the Warrior talents individually.

Each Talent has a Utility ranking (how good it is, on a 1-10 scale, ignoring pre-requisites), a Cost ranking (1 being too many poor utility pre-requisites, 10 meaning it's worth the point investment to get it nomatter what), and an Overall ranking (subjective combination of the two factors).

On some of these talents I am not speaking from direct experience, so please feel free to adjust any ratings/descriptions you feel are off. If enough people tweak the ranks, I will go through the history and edit the rank to reflect an average of current patch rankings (feel free to adjust the average yourself if you want to crunch the numbers).

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ARMS

=== Improved Heroic Strike / Deflection / Improved Rend === Details

Improved Heroic Strike - 3 points

• Utility Rank: 2/10 (1 person rating)
  

Steaming Pile of... Well if you use it early and get rid of it on a respec it's OK

• Cost Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

3 points that could be better spent elsewhere, but luckily only 3

• Overall Rank: 3/10 (1 person rating)
  

People may giggle if you admit you have it, but they won't throw you out of the group...

Deflection - 5 points

• Utility Rank: 9/10 (1 person rating)
  

Belongs in any defensive minded "protection spec" even though it's in Arms

• Cost Rank: 9/10 (1 person rating)
  

Absolutely worth the points unless your plan has no room for it.

• Overall Rank: 9/10 (1 person rating)
  

Just get it already...

Improved Rend - 3 points

• Utility Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)
  

A nice talent, but depends on a skill use. Also a pre-requisite for an excellent passive talent.

• Cost Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)
  

When you're tight on points, you may be able to live without it. You can still use the plain skill.

• Overall Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)
  

Belongs in most Arms builds, but other builds can skip it.

=== Improved Charge / Tactical Mastery / Improved Thunder Clap === Details

Improved Charge

• Utility Rank: 1/10 (1 person rating)
  

Would be much higher if Charge worked in combat, but it doesn't.

• Cost Rank: 3/10 (1 person rating)
  

Only worth the points if you can't think of ANYWHERE else to put them, but it's only 2.

• Overall Rank: 2/10 (1 person rating)
  

Almost anything besides this is a better way to get the 10 Arms talents for the next tier.

Tactical Mastery

• Utility Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

If you see a tactical use for it that you MUST do, then you need it, otherwise you don't.

• Cost Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)
  

A better way to get to 10 Arms points than Charge/Thunderclap talents.

• Overall Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)
  

A good talent, but far from mandatory.

Improved Thunder Clap

• Utility Rank: 2/10 (1 person rating)
  

Extra damage on a weak, barely used skill... whee! Still better than the Charge talent, IMO.

• Cost Rank: 3/10 (1 person rating)
  

Every talent point is precious. Friends don't let friends get the Thunder Clap talent.

• Overall Rank: 3/10 (1 person rating)
  

Out of witty comments...

Improved Overpower / Anger Management / Deep Wounds

Details

Improved Overpower

• Utility Rank: 8/10 (1 person rating)
  

An opportunity to nearly double the damage on what was already a highly efficient damage dealing skill.

• Cost Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)
  

To get to this tier, you sometimes need to make some sacrifices, but as Arms is so popular, not penalized too much.

• Overall Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)
  

Get it if you plan to be in Battle Stance a lot.

Anger Management

• Utility Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

It's all about pacing...

• Cost Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

You have to have 5 points in Tactical Mastery to get here, but there are worse things you could do with your talent points

• Overall Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

You won't know if you need this until you have a better feel for your personal play style.

Deep Wounds

• Utility Rank: 9/10 (1 person rating)
  

Less if you have a wimpy weapon...

• Cost Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)
  

Docked a little for being a 10 req tier talent, but the Rend pre-requisite isn't a big detraction.

• Overall Rank: 8/10 (1 person rating)
  

Passive talents are great!

Two-Handed Weapon Specialization / Impale

Details

Two-Handed Weapon Specialization

• Utility Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)
  

Pretty middle of the road, but OK.

• Cost Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)
  

If you're doing an Arms build, I can't think of a better way to get to the next tier, otherwise there are tempting options in other talent categories.

• Overall Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)
  

Hey, at least it's passive.

Impale

• Utility Rank: 4/10 (1 person rating)
  

Doesn't trigger as often as one would like, but when it does it's handy.

• Cost Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)
  

Pre-reqs aren't too painful, and it's only a couple talent points either way.

• Overall Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

A matter of personal style I guess...

Axe Specialization / Sweeping Strikes / Mace Specialization / Sword Specialization

Details

Sweeping Strikes

• Utility Rank: 9/10 (1 person rating)
  

If you get this far in the Arms tree, and don't pick up this Talent, you should be shot.

• Cost Rank: 8/10 (1 person rating)
  

Getting here means giving up some other nice talents on other trees, but it's still a bargain.

• Overall Rank: 9/10 (1 person rating)
  

Get it, use it, love it.

Axe Specialization

• Utility Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

Personal Taste.

• Cost Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

Missed opportunity to get more valuable talents.

• Overall Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

All depends on your style and luck with aquiring the appropriate weapon.

Mace Specialization

• Utility Rank: 4/10 (1 person rating)
  

Personal Taste.

• Cost Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

Missed opportunity to get more valuable talents.

• Overall Rank: 4/10 (1 person rating)
  

See if it works for you, but the diminishing returns put it below the others in this category, IMO.

Sword Specialization

• Utility Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

Personal Taste.

• Cost Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

Missed opportunity to get more valuable talents.

• Overall Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

All depends on your style and luck with aquiring the appropriate weapon.

Polearm Specialization / Improved Hamstring

Details

Polearm Specialization

• Utility Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)
  

Very specified, but those going for the optimal Mortal Strike will end up going this route.

• Cost Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)
  

Missed opportunities, but not the worst way to get to 30 arms.

• Overall Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)
  

Just make sure you get your hands on a good polearm, or you'll feel silly taking this talent.

Improved Hamstring

• Utility Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)
  

A shadow of the talent (and skill) it once was.

• Cost Rank: 4/10 (1 person rating)
  

Probably should be a higher rating, but I'm bitter about the 10%->5% nerf.

• Overall Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

It's a bad value for your talent points, but if you're a die hard PvP player you should still get it.

Mortal Strike

Details

Mortal Strike

• Utility Rank: 9/10 (1 person rating)
  

Hey, I don't particularly like it, but I recognize it's very good...

• Cost Rank: 8/10 (1 person rating)
  

A lot of good talents in other trees are just barely out of reach. Them's the breaks.

• Overall Rank: 9/10 (1 person rating)
  

Unless you have a very clear plan for your talents, this is the default end-goal talent.

[edit 1/28/05 - Docked utility by 1 due to the "nerf" in the previous patch (long overdue)]

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FURY

Booming Voice / Cruelty

Details

Booming Voice

• Utility Rank: 4/10 (1 person rating)
  

More useful if your playstyle leaves you without either of these shouts still active at the end of battle

• Cost Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)
  

Can be picked up cheaply by nearly any build. Don't rush to 5 if 1 point here works for you.

• Overall Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

Fine to get it, just know what you're trading off.

Cruelty

• Utility Rank: 10/10 (1 person rating)
  

More damage with any weapon you use. Avoid if you dislike dealing damage.

• Cost Rank: 9/10 (1 person rating)
  

If you have unused points, put them here before nearly anything else.

• Overall Rank: 9/10 (1 person rating)
  

Great talent with no significant tradeoffs, what's not to like?

Improved Demoralizing Shout / Unbridled Wrath

Details

Improved Demoralizing Shout

• Utility Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)
  

Used often. Someone should do some methodical measuring of the net effect on damage taken, but until then it doesn't seem to hurt.

• Cost Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

Most people won't put this many points on a talent like this unless they're working on something (piercing howl).

• Overall Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)
  

A no brainer if you want P.Howl. Much more thought required otherwise.

Unbridled Wrath - 5 points

• Utility Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

Hard to say. 10/10 for some folks, 0/10 for others. Will refine the ranking after more testing.

• Cost Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

Often comes into play at a stage of talent distribution where points are tight. If fewer than 5 points does the trick for you, don't waste extra talent points here.

• Overall Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

Don't jump on this one early unless you're really frustrated by poor rage generation. Grab it once you understand your rage needs.

Improved Cleave / Piercing Howl / Blood Craze / Improved Battle Shout

Details

Improved Cleave

• Utility Rank: 3/10 (1 person rating)
  

More damage is always a nice attribute, but are you a cleave user?

• Cost Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

Doesn't feel like a good value. Those who saw the beta version still miss their extra hits.

• Overall Rank: 4/10 (1 person rating)
  

A viable option in a fury build, but nothing overwhelming..

Piercing Howl

• Utility Rank: 9/10 (1 person rating)
  

Perhaps not a bread and butter source of damage, but there is something to be said for a skill that can save your butt or the life of a friend.

• Cost Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)
  

A better use of points for a defensive player than most options in the upper Defensive talent tree. Pre-reqs not too painful.

• Overall Rank: 8/10 (1 person rating)
  

See if you can fit it in your talent plan. Not the end of the world if you can't, but it's very nice to have.

Blood Craze

• Utility Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

Probably ranked higher than it's worth due to my love of passives. A mediocre talent that is constantly helping you without your having to think about it is better than a fantastic talent that you never remember to use.

• Cost Rank: 4/10 (1 person rating)
  

Not a good value for this far up the Fury tree.

• Overall Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

Something to throw in as an afterthought on a Fury plan.

Keep in mind that Warriors have little Spirit to begin with, and 15% of their regen rate isn't going to be anything to write home about. Assuming a regen rate of 200 HP/tick, that's 30 HP/tick. Now, a tick happens around once every three seconds, meaning you'll only be regenning for 18 of those 20 seconds, or six ticks. 30 HP x 6 ticks = 180 HP regenned. A normal mob will likely crit you for around 100-120, while an elite mob will likely crit you for more than 200 HP. In short, Improved Thunder Clap is more useful than Blood Craze. - Artega

Improved Battle Shout

• Utility Rank: 3/10 (1 person rating)
  

Add a couple rank points if you religiously keep battle shout up.

• Cost Rank: 3/10 (1 person rating)
  

Would be an OK first tier talent. A tough sell in its current position.

• Overall Rank: 3/10 (1 person rating)
  

Bottom line, it's probably not worth the points this high up in the tree.

Improved Execute / Enrage

Details

Improved Execute

• Utility Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)
  

Players who spend most of their time in battle/beserk stance (talent tree != stance choice btw) should consider this strongly.

• Cost Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)
  

A noticable improvement per talent point. Surplus rage turns into more damage anyway.

• Overall Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)
  

Good talent, but if you're conserving points on this tier Enrage is a tad better.

Enrage

• Utility Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)
  

If you often find yourself surrounded by 3 or more melee enemies, this is a nice choice. Stay away if you don't enjoy dealing damage.

• Cost Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)
  

Passives are always a good value.

• Overall Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)
  

The best talent of this tier by a hair. Solo / PvP focused players should skip.

Improved Slam / Death Wish / Improved Intercept

Details

Improved Slam

• Utility Rank: 4/10 (1 person rating)
  

After reading the above, if you still plan on using slam, consider the talent. The original 1.5 speed isn't too bad to begin with, however.

• Cost Rank: 3/10 (1 person rating)
  

Not a good benefit per talent point. Save yourself some grief and buy a passive talent elsewhere.

• Overall Rank: 3/10 (1 person rating)
  

Slam is interruptable.

Death Wish

• Utility Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)
  

A very situational talent, but when that situation arises, you will be very glad you have it.

• Cost Rank: 4/10 (1 person rating)
  

Only one point, but you're looking at a lot of fury points to get there.

• Overall Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

Are you afraid of fear? You don't have to be.

Improved Intercept

• Utility Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

Like the skill, but many people can live with the non-talent cooldown.

• Cost Rank: 4/10 (1 person rating)
  

Not bad as far as benefit per talent point, but it's up there in the fury tree.

• Overall Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
  

Either indispensible or worthless. How much do you enjoy killing players?

Improved Berserker Rage / Flurry

Details

Improved Berserker Rage

• Utility Rank: 4/10 (1 person rating)
  

A very situational talent, and when the situation arrives, it may still not help that much.

• Cost Rank: 2/10 (1 person rating)
  

By this point in the talent tree, points are scarce, and you should really consider flurry instead if there's any question of a tradeoff.

• Overall Rank: 3/10 (1 person rating)
  

If I ever play a warlock, I'll remember to re-fear warriors 17 seconds later...

Flurry

• Utility Rank: 8/10 (1 person rating)
  

A passive that results in better damage over time.

• Cost Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)
  

All those wonderful arms talents that boost critical hit % are just out of reach... sush a shame. If you get this talent and haven't gotten cruelty, you probably should go back to the Hello Kitty MMORPG. (note: I like Kitty as much as the next guy, I just don't think many of her fans understand the word "synergy".)

• Overall Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)
  

If you chose not to get Mortal Strike, this isn't a bad cornerstone of an alternate talent build.

Bloodthirst

Details

Bloodthirst

• Utility Rank: 3/10 (1 person rating)
  

If you get the killing blow (doubtful in a group), you'd better hustle to get that next attack in because the bloodthirst state wears off quickly.

• Cost Rank: 1/10 (1 person rating)
  

Yes, it's 1 more point, but by taking it you are losing all possibility of either concussion blow or sweeping strikes. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?!?

• Overall Rank: 2/10 (1 person rating)
  

Just because it's at the top of the talent tree doesn't mean it's good (as we'll see in protection too).

Bloodthirst lasts for 15 seconds. Assuming you're fighting green-con mobs (every Warrior does this for grinding, because we all know yellow-con mobs cause too much downtime), you can probably kill six or seven before needing to rest, and you'll definitely get some nice mileage out of this ability. In PvP, ANY player - regardless of level difference - triggers Bloodthirst, and a double-damage hit is incredibly powerful in PvP. True, by taking Bloodthirst, you miss out on either Sweeping Strikes or Concussion Blow, but neither of the two abilities are particularly stellar. Sweeping Strikes confines you to Battle Stance, is buggy, and only lasts for five hits, and costs an absurd 30 Rage. Concussion Blow can be blocked, dodged, parried, or just plain miss, and many high level mobs are either resistant or immune to stuns. On top of that, it's pretty well-accepted that placing ANY points into Protection (21 of which will be required if you want Conc) effectively neuters your damage output. I'd take Bloodthirst over Concussion Blow or Sweeping Strikes any day. - Artega

PROTECTION

--UNDER CONSTRUCTION--

Shield Discipline

--UNDER CONSTRUCTION--

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